Prep to Profit Podcast: Mastering Food Photography with Heidi Harris

[00:00:00] Andy Blechman: I think people are starting to pile in here. And I am so excited for today's conversation on the Bottle Podcast with Heidi Harris. Heidi and I were just talking about. Some of the multiple endeavors that she works on and so, we were kind of in the middle of talking about all these different entrepreneurial things that you work on.

And there's a funny story layered in here about how we know each other. And how this podcast came to be. But Heidi, I'd love to hear your background. We're here to talk about food photography, but I think you do a lot of things. You just called yourself right before we started this somewhat of a crazy entrepreneur.

Yeah. I would love to hear about your background, how you got into food photography. And then, yeah, I'm really excited to talk about some of the work you've done in the meal prep and meal kit space and how you see photography drive success for brands online.

[00:00:51] Heidi Harris: Yeah. Okay. Thanks. And thanks for having me be a part of this podcast.

It's really fun. I've been a photographer for a very long time. Even I started with film way back when and it's always something that's been a creative outlet for me. I spent my first industry that I was in was weddings, which is a common place for a lot of photographers. I feel and it can be a good kind of boot camp catch all for a lot of different skills.

So that's people we're working with limited time. The kind of scale of the events that we were doing at that time were very big kind of luxury events. And part of that event structure is capturing the. Like the location, the settings, but also, and I'm sure you guys have seen this, like the tent, the intent interior down to the table settings and place settings.

And that is very naturally what rolled into translating that portion of a wedding day into hospitality work. So shooting restaurants, hotels, resorts where the food and Bev component was a really big part of what we were capturing along with kind of the human experience. Or the experiential piece, but I love shooting food and working with chefs.

I went to art school, I studied drawing chefs have a reputation of being a little eccentric as well. And I really vibe off that energy. I like that what they do is meant to be consumed and destroyed. And so the photograph really preserves that for them. And it's just been a really fun space to work with.

So roundabout way, that's how I wound up getting more exposure with the food and Bev and restaurant world.

[00:02:43] Andy Blechman: What what drove you to be an artist? So you said you went to art school, some inside conversations. We just talked about your son, the drum set in the background is your son, the guitar is yours.

It seems like you really love to create and be creative. What kind of, what is the origin? Story for you in terms of wanting to be an artist and finding your way into like, how that became a commercial endeavor for you.

[00:03:06] Heidi Harris: Yeah. I would say I had no choice. This is definitely how I've shown up was just very creative, loved drawing, loved colors spending a lot of time outside looking at the clouds, as just this like naturally inclined In that kind of mindset, creative mindset.

And it was no question to me that I needed to go to art school. And I chose drawing because I felt like it was a great foundation kind of fundamental skill set that things could be applied to. And I still practice art. I've been involved with the art community in Atlanta for a really long time.

And photography for me was something that was a really great hybrid. It's satiates my creative need. But I can apply it to a variety of different niches and industries that is a little bit easier to monetize than being a fine artist full time.

[00:04:05] Andy Blechman: So I think one thing you're not mentioning, and we haven't gotten into your different businesses, but you also have impact.

Little bit of background. Heidi came to me in a couple of different ways. But for this podcast, I actually emailed a former guest, Laura Fryer, who does a ton of PR in the restaurant and food and Bev world. And I asked, who's the best photographer in Atlanta? And she immediately sent me Heidi's information.

And Heidi and I were emailing back and forth and I put together that this is the same Heidi that for the last six years has taken every picture of my family. And so one of the most beautiful things about this conversation, I think some of the work you do is that your pictures hang in our home and are like my favorite part of our house.

It's this gallery wall of all these pictures you've taken. And you took the pictures of my wife when she was pregnant with our first. Child and now, taking pictures of all three of our kids. And when I found out that there was this like a beautiful meeting of something that's so personal to me, but also something that's so interesting to me, which is the and something that we see a lot of bottle, which is the power of photography for selling online, especially selling food online.

That was especially meaningful. So it was really cool to put those two things together. I'd love to hear about. Your kind of food photography background who have you shot for, what are some of maybe one of the the most fun chef stories you have, you don't have to name names, but we'd love to hear who you've shot for and some of the people, some of the work you do on the food space and maybe before we even do that, tell us about your businesses.

We have a bunch of entrepreneurs on here and who will listen to this would love to hear about the different businesses you're working on. and then we can go into who you shot for your food photography background.

[00:05:41] Heidi Harris: Sorry. My dog is barking back there. We

[00:05:43] Andy Blechman: can't hear it at all. Zoom does an amazing job of noise cancellation.

[00:05:48] Heidi Harris: Okay. So let's see to start with. I guess who I've shot or

[00:05:55] Andy Blechman: or let's start with what businesses you're working on. So you do the family photography and then what else?

[00:06:00] Heidi Harris: Yes, I have a family photography. piece, which is again, from that wedding world. It just blends naturally into newborns and families, which I love doing.

And as a creative, I've picked up things along the way that I've enjoyed and I didn't want to get rid of it in order to change and acquire something else. So I really wanted to add pieces. So I have a newborn or a family photography portion of my business. I have a school preschool and daycare business, which is called silly goose.

And with that's been going for about seven years, I have. 16 team members. So that's a whole other thing. I have another business called heart book, which takes kids artwork and makes a kind of a beautiful heirloom quality coffee table book. And I'm launching another business. And I'm going to be launching my next year, which will be my first foray into a tangible item.

So like some hard goods for photographers so branching out and going and going. Yeah.

[00:07:15] Andy Blechman: Yeah. Talk, talk to us about the food. Who have you shopped for what are some of those experiences been like?

[00:07:21] Heidi Harris: Yeah. It's, I feel like the easier way to structure it in my experience has really been for shooting for many, if not all of the PR agencies in Atlanta and the umbrella restaurant brands.

Instead of just. Bold American catering. I will shoot for the entirety of the fifth group or the Castellucci hospitality group. So lots of different groups who tend to have big networks underneath them. And that does segue nicely into a lot of, I think what we can talk about in terms of how to adapt a skillset like photography, but make it feel different.

Per brand. So let's say if the fifth group has two Mexican concepts, one is fine dining, one is fast, casual the same photographer is coming in to make them feel cohesive, but distinct. So there's some like nuance with playing with how do we make it feel on brand for the fifth group, but also distinctive within those brands.

So there's that I've shot. Richard Blaze was one of the first people that I worked a lot with, and when he was still in Atlanta. Now he's more of a celebrity style chef. I would say in L. A. you see him on the food network. A lot photograph Tom Colicchio. And I just. I feel like almost every restaurant in Atlanta.

Another kind of offshoot of this, and this came from Steven Satterfield at Miller Union. There's a restaurant clothing brand called Tillet. And they make, and I shoot all of their photos as well. So all of their like look books their new products. And we work with all the new kind of upcoming chefs that's in New York city.

They're based in the lower East side. So I'm up there about every two months or so and have been for about 10 years. Which has just been a really fun way to keep a pulse on what is happening currently in that food scene and to see what parts of that do end up affecting the South or not affecting the South.

So that's been fun too. And sometimes we shoot them in action cooking but a lot of times it's just meeting chefs and talking about their work.

[00:09:44] Andy Blechman: Wow, so cool. So much diversity.

[00:09:46] Heidi Harris: Yeah.

[00:09:47] Andy Blechman: And, I think this dovetails nicely. And Hannah, one of our one of the business owners on this chat has a question, but we'll get to that next.

But I think that dovetails nicely into maybe you can tell us about. One of my favorite meal kit companies who I am a customer of based in Atlanta garnishing gather who you've been, it seems like working with for almost a decade. Maybe cause that's so close to what our vendors do. Maybe you can share a little bit about that experience.

Just what have you witnessed? What, they haven't been able to do a quick screen sharing a little bit to just show. What those photos look like. They're obviously, they're really beautiful and really well done, but would love to hear You know what you what you've experienced because you have a first hand account of like meal kit meal delivery meal prep trends and you've seen what they've done as they've grown.

[00:10:35] Heidi Harris: Yeah, and it has been an evolving thing for many years since Garnish and Gather got off the ground. I will say a big thing that maybe this seems obvious and maybe this is an approach that a lot of people take. But with their. Specific Approach. We're shooting a little over a month's worth of content on one day.

[00:10:59] Andy Blechman: So

[00:11:00] Heidi Harris: that's a lot of, that was going to be

[00:11:01] Andy Blechman: my first question. So they changed their menu every week, right?

[00:11:04] Heidi Harris: That's right.

[00:11:05] Andy Blechman: So you, they prep, they plan their menu for a month and then you go in and shoot all in one day. I think that's a really good takeaway as a starting point, actually.

[00:11:13] Heidi Harris: Yeah, we do. We try to maximize the time and effort that it takes.

Photo shoots take all that pre planning, the time and effort. So how do we do that as a small business and make it manageable without it completely depleting your resources? And for us that really wound up being these one longer format shoot where we have planned everything in advance.

Now sometimes, and in the beginning that was like we have. 3 pieces of chicken and we are rinsing it off and it is not cut. Now it's rolled into more of a authentic cooking experience. So maybe there's some tasting elements happening with their team while we're shooting it. Some adjustments and some fine tuning can be made on their end, but we.

Prep cook, and then I will have some styling elements, which is pertaining to their brand. They like to go with kind of soft neutrals that really help the food stand out. Then we, I will plate and style each scene. So that could be different if it's like a family style, or if it's something that's more fun and playful, but with food and meal kits, primarily.

We're trying to make it really driven just like a POV style. If you are at a restaurant. Though these are made at home, we are just trying to make it enticing, very appetizing, super yummy is the word that I use a lot. And sometimes that means showing less, sometimes it means adding other elements in.

But just really making sure like the image that we're capturing is the best representation of that dish.

[00:12:55] Andy Blechman: And what do you mean by showing less and food styling elements just for, you for people who might not be as familiar with. What food photography and food styling is. .

[00:13:05] Heidi Harris: Yeah. Two examples. One would be if you have something that's more of like a casserole type.

And so the realistic lifestyle shot would be what we know of a casserole dish, sometimes aesthetically that may not be the most beautiful, so maybe we have a little hint of the dish in the background, but we have it plated. With some nice garnish, a napkin and a fork, something that makes it look more like you're about to dive in versus the literal thing that you're getting.

So we're, we are asking the clients to fill in the blanks. With reading the description and knowing that it comes a certain way, but we don't need to show it that certain way. The other way would be tacos. We all know tacos as a handheld thing. But aesthetically it doesn't always look beautiful that way.

So we usually show them flat, really messy, super textural. It still says taco. It's just a much more enticing and kind of dynamic image.

[00:14:08] Andy Blechman: And, like, how do you think about some of the more technical things so the, so while I'd be curious to know what's a day in the life like on one of these shoots?

So the chef prepares the food. And I'm trying to think for people who are watching this for them, like to think through how they could DIY it or, or how they might work with a photographer to help them execute really well, but walk maybe like fundamentally, what happens? So the chef makes the food or the team makes the food and then what are you, are they putting, you said you played it.

So you actually put the food on the plate. And are there things that you're thinking about while you're plating? What are you how are you thinking through like how to plate? And if it's helpful, I can bring up an example, but maybe we just talk through it verbally first.

[00:14:51] Heidi Harris: Yeah. Yeah. I think my plating approach is directly derived from the new restaurants that I see.

And I do take time to follow current food magazines, cookbook authors online. So I have a visual idea of some newer fun approaches. So we'll take that aesthetic and bring it to the dish. There are sometimes 2 chefs prepping things. So whether that's we have a if it's a chicken breast, the protein is there if it's like a rice and a veg, all those components are separate.

So very sioux style. mise en place just like very there. And then I will take the things and if it's like a beautiful sauce, we'll swipe it on the plates. Sometimes it'll be drizzled on top. Sometimes a piece of pork chop is whole. Sometimes it will be cut. It all depends on how that final presentation is coming together.

But we're really trying to make it look like current restaurant quality, delicious food that anybody could achieve themselves at home.

[00:16:02] Andy Blechman: And would your suggestion be to go in that direction? Even if I'm delivering meals in a certain obviously Garnishing Gathers meals, they come, they're prepared by the person at home.

It's a meal kit. But you're presenting it as the final kind of, Presentation I think what we've seen on our side and the data supports this is that you're definitely having beautiful photography with a plated meal typically leads to better conversion. We do see a lot of meal prep folks presented as in the container, and that's a choice they make, but they do a nice job of that.

So I'm curious obviously, you need to have it cooked, but what do you sense like, the trade offs between the two of Hey, I'm gonna show this as it comes, versus I'm gonna show it more like restaurant style.

[00:16:45] Heidi Harris: Yeah. And we've learned the same a Garnish and Gather will sell some direct to consumer, other kind of bundles, whether that's soup containers from Super Jenny or um, angel cakes, like lots of other kind of grocery items.

that are pre prepared and packaged. We always take them out of the package and plate it. We sometimes we'll need to show it both ways just to make sure that it's being clearly represented accurately. And there are creative and fun ways to do that too. Maybe it's somebody holding a stack of things or taking it out of a bag or in the fridge, but I think if you're selling the meal, show the meal and that's really what helps make people want to buy it.

[00:17:33] Andy Blechman: Cool. And then in terms plating, either chef does it or maybe chef and photographer or chef and if it's the owner doing a DIY, they played it and really try and make a pop. I love this idea of. And I'd encourage our owners to do this trying to stay super current, following food photography, seeing what things look really well, what things are trending, like, how people are styling.

Because I think that could give really nice perspectives on what the most kind of food forward people are doing. And then I guess the only other question I have here on the technical side would be like, what about The styling of things around the plate. So how do you think about color contrast and how to you just mentioned for some of the to go stuff being super creative, putting in the fridge, like, how do you think about setting up the entire scenes that it creates this, picture in the customer's head of oh, this is going to be a beautiful dinner that I have in my house.

[00:18:21] Heidi Harris: Yeah. Yeah. There's a couple of things that I feel like are must haves when photographing food, whether that's actually at a restaurant or for Garnish and Gather. And that's scale to show any item with scale lets the consumer know through a screen.

This is what I can expect. So to me, plate size alone doesn't always translate to what portion size you're getting, but things like night cutlery, knives, forks. glasses that does. We know about how big a fork is. So to have a fork next to your protein or next to the whole entire dish, we immediately understand, okay, I'm getting about this much.

That's very beneficial. Otherwise we are losing some things in translation. So having a little bit of propping elements, and I would say for each brand, if there's like specific colorways that are really derivative, go with that. So choose that color of napkin or a subtle suggestion in a glass in the background.

But generally speaking, and you see this in the restaurant world, food tends to be plated on White or neutrals because it helps the food really shine and stand out and you can have fun with it. And, if it's in a cast iron skillet, then, of course, it's darker or if it's on a marble cutting board or wood cutting board, you can have different elements coming in, making it feel more formal or more casual, but I think always having something to show scale really just tells us to expect.

[00:20:05] Andy Blechman: Scale and also like texture. It sounds the cutting board versus like the plates. You create some depth and kind of volume to the image.

[00:20:14] Heidi Harris: Yes.

[00:20:14] Andy Blechman: What are you seeing in terms of in the DIY world? And like, how do you think people should think about taking pictures themselves?

One of our questions is, are there photo apps you'd recommend? If I'm, we have a charcuterie business on this one. So it's Michelle who has a charcuterie business. What would you recommend for a smaller startup that maybe doesn't have time to invest in photography? What are some of the things they should be doing?

Thinking about how can you do this yourself?

[00:20:44] Heidi Harris: Yeah. The first thing that I would do is approach it with something that feels brand specific. In the photographer, like the correct photography term is called a tone or an action. So for. A quick example that would be like making a photo that was color black and white.

We all see those kind of different effects and filters that we have on an iPhone. There is a program called Afterlight that allows you to edit photos, I think a little bit better than what the phone comes with. Although truly these days, I think phones take really beautiful photos. I would just apply a filter of your choice.

Then and make it look like you and I say that only because if somebody is scrolling on the phone, we want it to be distinctual between your brand, your charcuterie and a picture of charcuterie. So that could be a styling element in the background in addition to the tone. You'll see sometimes people shoot something it's called direct light, but basically really bright sunlight that looks very beautiful for things like.

Honey and oils and light colored liquids. But it's a very distinctive look. So I just think having consistency in your lighting, consistency in that tone and consistency with some styling that makes it you and your brand are going to be things that drive it always feeling like what you're offering.

[00:22:17] Andy Blechman: Cool. And in terms of in terms of the apps you mentioned Afterlight after light, is that right? Are there any other tools or guides or resources? Like I'd love to hear you mention, what are some of the places you're learning from? Is there a place where someone could, after this podcast and we'll link to it is there something you'd suggest if they want to learn to get better at photography and the DIY side somewhere they can go and learn to do this themselves?

Do you have any suggestions on that front? Yeah.

[00:22:43] Heidi Harris: Reputable places online. I feel like. I don't know. I don't know if any like off the top of my head. I would say anybody's welcome to email me if they have any questions. I love to help people with this specifically and do frequently. I think, again, for that ease and the brand consistency, it really is trying to determine where you're taking those photos and making it making sure that place is a place that makes it easy.

For me, we're shooting against window lights. And I do bring in supplemental light, especially for Garnish and Gather since this is their kind of their new aesthetic, the new brand, a little bit more shadows, but having good natural light is super important. Key. I think especially for anybody who's more novice beginner working with a phone and trying to maintain that consistency just because you're shooting food, it doesn't mean that it needs to be in the kitchen.

It can be on the floor. It can be on a surface shoved next to a sliding glass door on a table next to a window, wherever it needs to be create your. your scene

[00:23:56] Andy Blechman: cool. I love that tip, and I'm going to do some questions and then we can come back to some more thoughts on my end. So I think this one's interesting because it transitions us from like the DIY thought over to if you're going to hire someone.

So Hannah, who for context is in Arizona is asking about pricing and packaging, how to just ballpark. How do you think about like, How should someone charge? How do you like what? How does pricing typically work? And maybe before we even do that, let's start with how do you pick photographer?

What are some things to think about when you're selecting a photographer? In your opinion, if you were going to pick someone and then we can talk through pricing.

[00:24:33] Heidi Harris: Yeah, I think, and I would say I do specialize in working with small business providing photos for people in a variety of industries.

And the key word that I would say is that I am relationship focused. So if you're going into a new venture with a photographer, and the idea is to create a streamlined, seamless experience where people are really dialed in and equally invested, it's going to create that relationship. To me, the relationship is the paramount thing that, precedes business.

business. And with that in mind, I price myself accordingly for ongoing business with clients. So as a photographer, I might get some flack on this, but I do actually feel like I have a lower rate based on the understanding or desire for ongoing continual work. And for that reason, because it's business, I have a flat rate per day, and that includes all of the edited photos and full usage rights.

Everything goes to the business for the benefit of the business, and it is not Heidi taking pictures for Garnish and Gather. It is. Garnish and Gather

That I feel like is really important.

[00:25:54] Andy Blechman: That's a really important point because I do think you see photographers, there are, there, there's a cohort of photographers that they actually want to own the ip.

So That's right. So their ip, you as the business are just getting the right to license them. And I think that is probably a huge takeaway for today that it's really important that the very least you have co ownership, but I love this idea of it's a day rate and then the business owns the rights to those photos.

That was something that was really important to me when I ran my meal delivery company is we own the rights to the images. And what is like, someone with. A year of experience. What are they what do you see as like the typical day rate versus someone with a decade or two decades of experience?

Like what's some ranges people should be thinking as they're out there about pricing.

[00:26:40] Heidi Harris: Yeah. I would encourage people to set a price where they feel like their value is being met. And we all have the ability to incorporate trade if needed. I. I'm a fan. I love incorporating trade whenever I can, and it does reinforce that I'm also a client of Garnish and Gather, and not only do I photograph it, but I Prepare it at home.

And I think that does nothing but bolster our relationship, the images, the investment in the brand. So if bartering is something that you're okay with, add that in or have that as part of your conversation, I think if you're a new photographer and this is something that's you're assessing out, I am.

A fan of open communication, have a day rate or a half day rate for whatever rate you feel is great. Maybe it's $500 or $1,000. See what the process is like all the way through from shooting the images to delivering the images. And have an honest conversation with the business owner about the value in that.

I tell clients this myself. I've been shooting for 25 years, and if I have a new client, I say the exact same thing for your investment in photography, this should come right back into your pocket. If it doesn't, I need to know. But it should pay for itself, and in that first iteration, it should pay for itself and then give everybody the confidence to move forward.

[00:28:11] Andy Blechman: And if you were a meal prep, or like in the Garnish and Gather owner seat, and you are assessing or not garnish gather, because you want to assess yourself, but you were in a similar business and you were assessing a photographer. What are some of the things you would ask or want to see if you were thinking about hiring someone to shoot?

Or even like with Silly Goose, it sounds like you hire photographers to shoot for you. So what are some of the things you think about when you're, or what should an owner of a business think about when hiring a photographer?

[00:28:38] Heidi Harris: Yeah. I do feel like those images need to be ownership of the company. And from my point of view, from a photographer, I am helping direct some creative, but the main usage rights and how the images are directly benefiting.

That business. If I need something on my end Hey, previous client, I'm bidding on a job. I really need to show them some of this work that is that okay. Yes, absolutely. You can use me as a referral. Great. That's I feel like where it comes into place more. So is if I'm trying to bid on a job, let's just link everybody together for a referral.

I think it looks professional. I think Everybody's in good standing relationship wise and again defaulting back to the intention being longevity of a great working relationship. It makes it easier as time goes by seamless and it and as a freelancer. You get your dates booked. You don't need to constantly find new clients if you have a roster of ongoing, essentially retainers.

[00:29:47] Andy Blechman: And then in terms of what you've seen, like, how do you think, I always think of this Airbnb story. I don't know if you're familiar with the Airbnb story, but like Airbnb, Basically saw 2 things. The 1st thing was they started with the customer taking the images themselves. The photos looked dingy.

It's also 2012, but like the photos didn't look great. So then they invested in sending photographers to the actual rentals to take the pictures and immediately they saw like massive conversion. I'm curious, like what has your experience been with people like Castellucci and for those who are on and don't know, like Castellucci, Michelin starred restaurant group, like eight or nine units in Atlanta.

Unbelievable restaurateur. Same thing for Garnish and Gather, like beautiful business, large meal kit company in Atlanta. What do you like, do you have any sense of like, how does photography drive business for business owners for especially in the food space?

[00:30:44] Heidi Harris: Yeah, I think, again, I think it should almost instantaneously pay for itself.

And, with my day rates, I price myself per day, no matter what industry I'm shooting for. It's just like the experience and what I'm bringing to the table. But having a delicious appetizing current, And modern take on food is what's going to have, what's going to make the difference between somebody choosing to go to this restaurant on a Friday night or somewhere else.

So it is, it's part restaurant, right? It's part menu offerings and the experience, but highlighting that experience and showcasing it in a really enticing way. It's a. Direct comparison to being successful.

[00:31:35] Andy Blechman: And then Hannah has a question here about your content days. Are you, she wanted to know, are you shooting all the items or just a few items?

Do you basically shoot the entire month's worth of items? I think garnish gather does about eight. Are so items a week, like how do those days work? And I'd love to know how long they are and what what that looks like.

[00:31:55] Heidi Harris: Yeah, they are long days. We're usually there about 10 o'clock in the morning until about four or five.

We'll shoot anywhere from 30 to 45 meals. And it is a well oiled machine at this point, but we are just like cranking it out. And what we're originally styling every single dish to make it look. Onto its own special little picture. We will take breaks if there's like a seasonal promotion.

Which has been going well. So if it's going to be something for a Thanksgiving meal or a holiday, or if it's like a new any kind of promo or limited time deal, we can spend a little bit of extra time adding, making sure we have space either above or to the side for copy or text. If we're not sure where the copy is going, giving some options for those things.

So we start. The meals are prepped in their little, okay, here's all the elements that we need for dish one. I'm plating it, shooting it, cleaning it up, plating the next one, shooting it, cleaning it up onward through the whole day. Get

[00:33:03] Andy Blechman: them

[00:33:05] Heidi Harris: all. That's right.

[00:33:06] Andy Blechman: That's really wild.

That's awesome. That's

[00:33:09] Heidi Harris: what I say. Sorry to jump in, but when I talk to new businesses and even for myself, it's, we all have to start somewhere, but I do think with your investment and that's what it is an investment in photography and in your brand. If you can invest in your own brand, chances are other people will if you don't, chances are other people won't.

So it does take a little bit of that belief. And also just paying attention to okay, we've got the images taken. They're being implemented 2 weeks, 3 weeks later. And I'm paying attention to our income and I need to see a difference.

[00:33:47] Andy Blechman: And I think that's a worthwhile thing to say to a photographer hey, I'm going to hire you.

We're going to try it for this month. I'm going to make the investment in this. And maybe you're also as an owner, making an investment in some ads or something else to drive traffic, but you want to see okay if we. Have the new photography and we're measuring, like, how many people are landing on our site?

What does the conversion look like now that we have photography and looking at the difference and measuring that and sharing that with the photographer and maybe making a 3 month investment, but really trying to think about, okay, how do we. How do we use photography to our benefit?

Like I said earlier, it's definitely something we see, at least anecdotally, driving conversion for sure. And I think it's without saying you're selling something. It's, people can't sample it because they're buying it online. You're selling something that has to look great. So that's all super insightful.

I'm curious. I just have a couple more questions and then maybe we can break down a few pictures on Garnish and Gather. And I think that'll run us right to the hour, but I don't know if you've been following AI at all, one thing we're interested in is what is the role of AI and food photography, something we think a lot about as a software business?

How could we even use AI to help people with their photography? But I'm curious, what you've observed or seen, or if you're using it at all, or have any thoughts on where AI takes us on photos.

[00:35:01] Heidi Harris: Yeah, I have used it a little bit mostly for things like backgrounds and other kind of very specific ways that I want to enhance something and to make it look perfect for ads.

Outside of that, it's good, but it's not great yet. I'm sure everybody's seen that, right. And thankfully so, I mean, there's. There's a difference. I think if you have to have it to lean in on, let's say, oh, I can't secure any more of this 1 kind of protein or this 1 kind of pepper mushroom. And we have all these images and now I can't use them.

If you need to go in and use AI to do something in a specific scenario. Understood. But as a way to get around actually taking the best imagery you can of your items, probably not yet.

[00:35:57] Andy Blechman: So how would I use AI to enhance an image? Let's say I didn't want to add a pepper. Would I, is there, do you just drop it in I think chat GPT are using like, I think one's called Mistral.

What software would you recommend if someone wanted to, at least I think I agree with you. I do think it's like a patch or it's an maybe background or even as I'm not a professional. I think the way I would use it as I would take the images and then maybe put it into somewhere to have them make it look better.

So take this image and make it look better. I think is a nice use case for AI. Like where would you suggest people start or what are you using to do that? Or are there different tools that you're aware of?

[00:36:30] Heidi Harris: I use Photoshop and Canva. I think Canva is a really great way to make things look, and I think it's very user friendly too, to do ads for social or you can take a little element and make it like a wallpaper or a background and make it like fun and interesting or maybe a little animated.

Canva does that in a really great way that I feel like is pretty user friendly. Photoshop that I use is not user friendly. But that's what I'm familiar with mostly.

[00:36:59] Andy Blechman: That's the professional suite. Cool. I'm going to share my screen. And I wanted to just have you talk through 2 or 3 Pictures you took and what we're looking at and what you were thinking and maybe we can just do a quick like live breakdown Hopefully you can see that we have a Lebanese kale and chickpea a cashew chicken stir fry and a harissa salmon all these sound delicious, but I think it's cool to see the three of them Stacked against each other.

I'd love to hear what went into each one and what you were thinking when you took them and the styling elements and like, why you use like some beverage and one of them and where you place give us, maybe spend a few minutes on each and some of the technical details to really get into the weeds here.

And I'm happy to I'll click on 1 to see if we can get. Yeah, there you go

[00:37:45] Heidi Harris: page yet. So this. header image, horizontal is really it's very neutral. So we have a neutral linen and neutral plate and the food is mostly neutral. So what we're doing is bringing in a hard direct light to get that really pretty reflection from the wine glass and make it look like dinner hour.

And just make the food look yummy. And pretty close. It's pretty close up so we can still see that it's at a lace setting. But we don't see it's not too pulled back. Garnish and Gather on their website. They crop to square. So we do keep that in mind. And that's, I think a great question when, especially when photographers are working with a new client or potentially with a client who's going through a rebrand having almost extensive conversations with the web developers, how the images are going to be utilized.

Are they vertical or horizontal or square to really, or do we not know yet? Let's make sure that we provide the options. Really doing your part as a photographer with the imagery to deliver what's needed for the specific usage.

[00:39:00] Andy Blechman: Yeah. And for anyone on Bottle, email us and we'll give you all the specs you need for a photographer.

Cause we can certainly guide you in that direction. We also crop to square for the most part.

[00:39:10] Heidi Harris: Yeah, adding in a little fork element there. Yeah. And so we're trying to bring in. This image on top, it's garnet, like garnishes in the name. So garnishing is super important to the brand. And otherwise we try to bring in some styling elements with local produce or seasonal items.

[00:39:29] Andy Blechman: And then I'd love to, let's do maybe, I had those first three, but let's do the curry salmons. Oh, it doesn't look like I can, got it. I'll go back to this main page. So talk us through, I'll pick one that I really like. I'm curious about this, the garlic mushrooms, because it's a side dish and it's also a bit of a different contrast in terms of the purple.

Like what made you choose a different color plate here. Like it is a little bit like these, I'd say the cream chicken and the cream pork chop, it's the same dish. So it looks like you use like the same styling, but what, talk about the color here, what you did here, why you chose.

To set this up this way?

[00:40:09] Heidi Harris: Yeah. The, that polenta on the base of a white plate with that kind of cream sauce, I thought it just might go a little too tonal. And that purple plate was something that we just got in and it was just. Begging to be used. So I thought that purple and yellow contrast would just be really beautiful and eye catching.

And still in the context of the website. Makes sense and not look too much of an outlier, but just add a little bit of color. And we do have a prop kit. So that's something I think else to keep in mind. We do have vinyl backgrounds that we use, which are really helpful for anybody to have. You can get them wet or oil.

You just wipe them off. They're readily available at several different places. And then we have a little box of our prep kit, which include flatware, some bowls and plates, some glassware. And some napkins.

[00:41:11] Andy Blechman: Very cool. And are you this is all East Fork pottery. It looks like for the most part, or is it a mix of

[00:41:16] Heidi Harris: something that a local Potter made?

[00:41:18] Andy Blechman: Cool. I do think that's a really cool tip is I think that there's beautiful. There's something to like, a really beautiful plate. And for business, that's, for as a business investment, spending 3 or 400 on a couple different plates and set. That look and have a certain feel and aesthetic that you as the owner really like.

I think it's like a cool thing to think about. Let's talk about this bowl. This is really pretty bowl. Like what? Again, it looks like you set the dinnertime scene, but like what? What about this? It feels a little different than the other 2. So especially like the background, like the tables, a different color.

Like what kind of what were you thinking on this shot?

[00:41:54] Heidi Harris: Yeah, I'm still leaning into a tone on tone which I also think reads as a neutral. So we have this kind of like a warm wood kind of background and this goldenrod napkin that are essentially acting as the same color. And the bowl being plated in a white bowl without these kind of like warm fog tones just making it seem like a warming dish when the weather starts getting colder.

[00:42:23] Andy Blechman: Like, Today, and I actually have a beautiful fire going upstairs in my house for some of the season. This would be a great dish to experience with that. With that I think the last question we have here is again from Hannah and is one that I love, and I'm interested to hear, but what are you seeing in food trends and food photography trends?

And who do you follow? And what are the places that you go for inspiration? You mentioned that, sounds like a quarterly trip to New York City obviously the food Mecca, in my opinion, what else, besides going to places like New York and maybe San Francisco and LA, which have very food forward scenes.

What else are you doing to like, keep up with the trends? And what are you, what kind of trends are you seeing?

[00:43:02] Heidi Harris: Yeah my favorite place to be inspired are cookbooks. So Broma Bakery has a new one called Sweet Tooth. That's really great, beautifully shot. Brooke Williamson just came out with her first book.

That's mostly plant based but any current Especially these are happen to be more celebrity level chefs. Molly, I forget her last name but new cookbooks by celebrity chefs tend to be, they've hired food stylists. They've had things plated in style. It's the best way to see fun, exciting ways, because think about how long cookbooks have been around.

People still buy them. It's one of the most successful, highly Sellable books on market it beats novels on fiction, anything it's cookbooks. So they're constantly coming out and they're a great place to get inspiration for new ways to show things we already know. Anything pasta related, desserts, anything flat, like pizza, look in those cookbooks and you'll find fun examples of how to shoot that.

[00:44:06] Andy Blechman: That's cool. So take yourself on a little date and go to the bookstore and look at cookbooks. That's more like something I love to do. There's another question that Maggie has from the real good life. She's asking for a while, there were crumbs all over the table and every food pick online I guess that was a trend.

Is that still a thing? Is that something people are doing? Are you still doing that? Or were you ever into that? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[00:44:28] Heidi Harris: Yeah I do a little messiness where I feel like the messiness is appropriate. So if it's a tortilla chip that's been cracked a little bit of that duster crumb or a little bit of a bread that's broken up, but I would limit it to what truly feels in the moment and accurate versus it being overly done.

I agree that it can be a line. The messiness can be a line. But I think that some, and again, pertaining to your brand, if you're a brand that specializes, let's just say for family meals where small children are eating to have a little hand or like a little hint of some kind of toy element, like a crumb.

would make sense. So not all the time, but I think occasionally when it's used, it can look really casual and comfortable and fun.

[00:45:21] Andy Blechman: Amazing. This was so cool. I really appreciate it. Is there anything I missed or anything our audience should know that we didn't cover or any lessons learned that we didn't hit on?

[00:45:30] Heidi Harris: No, I would just, try to, I would encourage everybody to work with a professional photographer or a dedicated photographer. Maybe that's somebody on an existing team to try to identify. The brands imagery we talk a lot about branding, whether that's in your font packages and your colorways and the story of the brand and what you're trying to go for and your ideal client.

But thinking of that thinking of how to reach your ideal client with the photo. So think about that demographic, think about where that demographic looks at stuff and copy it.

[00:46:10] Andy Blechman: That's a great way to end. I'm just going to end with one housekeeping item before we're thanking Heidi for her time and all this amazing insight.

So we launched a community exclusive to meal prep owners on Facebook. That will be going. It is live. We'll be going live next week. We're going to do at least a couple of times a month, hopefully every week, a live Facebook where we do Q&A with either meal prep owners or people like Heidi in addition to our podcast.

So. Hopefully you can join Chelsea, drop the link in the chat. And Heidi, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And I guess I'll see you in a month to take some family. All right. Thank you so much. Thanks everyone.

[00:46:52] Heidi Harris: Okay. All right.

[00:46:53] Andy Blechman: Bye. Bye.